it ain't over 'til the market sings...
it ain't over 'til the market sings...
I'm hearing a major 13th:
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Commentary:
I had expected the market to observe and reverse from this particular interval cycle vibration level , but this was just a stopping point and we rocketed up to a new area today. These levels exist as quanta, and the market will move from one to the next, and also will stop and reverse only at these levels. Because of the new cycle level hit today (not shown), I will be on the lookout for a reversal as trading resumes. This does not have to happen, of course. But smaller time level context will dictate. In any case, I expect most Wavers are doing just fine without yet another puzzle!
Todd
I had expected the market to observe and reverse from this particular interval cycle vibration level , but this was just a stopping point and we rocketed up to a new area today. These levels exist as quanta, and the market will move from one to the next, and also will stop and reverse only at these levels. Because of the new cycle level hit today (not shown), I will be on the lookout for a reversal as trading resumes. This does not have to happen, of course. But smaller time level context will dictate. In any case, I expect most Wavers are doing just fine without yet another puzzle!
Todd
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Hi Todd,
Puzzles can be cool ... sometimes.
Okay, vector slope ... based on the Feb high March low. Quanta ... energy levels of the lines. Major 13 (where is Joe F. when you need him) ... a compound 6th ... octave plus a 6th? ... a major thirteenth?. Conclusion ... market will continue to move from one quantum level to the next with potential for 6 additional levels. Alternative conclusion ... market runs out of steam at the next quantum level ... the major thirteenth. (My Primary Interpretation)
Am I even in the ballpark?
Joe
Puzzles can be cool ... sometimes.
Okay, vector slope ... based on the Feb high March low. Quanta ... energy levels of the lines. Major 13 (where is Joe F. when you need him) ... a compound 6th ... octave plus a 6th? ... a major thirteenth?. Conclusion ... market will continue to move from one quantum level to the next with potential for 6 additional levels. Alternative conclusion ... market runs out of steam at the next quantum level ... the major thirteenth. (My Primary Interpretation)
Am I even in the ballpark?
Joe
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Joe,
Apologies for being so obtuse!
It's great that you know music and recognize what a M13 interval is. But that was actually a "clerical error" (as in dumb mistake) on my part. I meant the interval 27 semitones above the fundamental which if you want to name it with tonal intervals is best described as two octaves and a minor third. But it is much easier to think in terms of interval and pitch class modulo 12. So that would be interval class 3 displaced by two octaves above the fundamental which we label pitch class 0. The distance between pitch class 0 and 3 is interval class 3 , a pitch class is a pitch regardless of octave placement, all from basic set theory, and both pitches and intervals vibrate. But that obscures the profound relationship of pitch class 3 with pitch class 0. It lies at a certain location in a very special interval class series and its complement modulo 12 that is fundamental to the nature of vibrating bodies.It will also generate the pitch class aggregate...J.S Bach used it, Arnold Schoenberg used it, Pythagoras used it.
The vector angles are based on a single initiating vibrating unit and were drawn with a tool I developed with coding help from Ken Churchill and posted on the old board some years ago. It extends price/time harmonic channels from a single vector space using two data points, somewhat like an Andrews Pitchfork which uses three. It is better suited to our ends.
By "quanta" I was referring to the fundamental nature of harmonic and, by extension, interval, series: they establish discreet levels. Those diagonal levels on the chart are only part of the story, and they could and do now extend upwards beyond the original chart. I posted this at the time because I though this was an inflection point after which the market would turn lower. It did not happen at that location. But, soon.
There you have it!
Todd
Apologies for being so obtuse!
It's great that you know music and recognize what a M13 interval is. But that was actually a "clerical error" (as in dumb mistake) on my part. I meant the interval 27 semitones above the fundamental which if you want to name it with tonal intervals is best described as two octaves and a minor third. But it is much easier to think in terms of interval and pitch class modulo 12. So that would be interval class 3 displaced by two octaves above the fundamental which we label pitch class 0. The distance between pitch class 0 and 3 is interval class 3 , a pitch class is a pitch regardless of octave placement, all from basic set theory, and both pitches and intervals vibrate. But that obscures the profound relationship of pitch class 3 with pitch class 0. It lies at a certain location in a very special interval class series and its complement modulo 12 that is fundamental to the nature of vibrating bodies.It will also generate the pitch class aggregate...J.S Bach used it, Arnold Schoenberg used it, Pythagoras used it.
The vector angles are based on a single initiating vibrating unit and were drawn with a tool I developed with coding help from Ken Churchill and posted on the old board some years ago. It extends price/time harmonic channels from a single vector space using two data points, somewhat like an Andrews Pitchfork which uses three. It is better suited to our ends.
By "quanta" I was referring to the fundamental nature of harmonic and, by extension, interval, series: they establish discreet levels. Those diagonal levels on the chart are only part of the story, and they could and do now extend upwards beyond the original chart. I posted this at the time because I though this was an inflection point after which the market would turn lower. It did not happen at that location. But, soon.
There you have it!
Todd
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Hi Todd,
Thanks for the explanation. For the record I know a bit about music but by no means an expert. My Farther was a singer who toured with many of the big bands of the 40’s, Lawrence Welk being one of them, knew Sinatra, among others and taught me a few things about music many years ago. Consequently I get some of what you are saying but find some of your explanation to be over my head. That said, I’m pretty sure I can work through it with a little effort on my part.
I find the idea of applying musical concepts and math to markets quite intriguing to say the least. I remember when I decided to delve into the esoteric side of trading about twenty years ago I looked at two potential paths I could follow. One was musical and the other was the ancients, geometry, etc. I chose the latter with the intention of circling back to the former sometime in the future but like many things that get put off, never did.
In any case thanks again for the very interesting post and of course my weekend project.
All the best,
Joe
Thanks for the explanation. For the record I know a bit about music but by no means an expert. My Farther was a singer who toured with many of the big bands of the 40’s, Lawrence Welk being one of them, knew Sinatra, among others and taught me a few things about music many years ago. Consequently I get some of what you are saying but find some of your explanation to be over my head. That said, I’m pretty sure I can work through it with a little effort on my part.
I find the idea of applying musical concepts and math to markets quite intriguing to say the least. I remember when I decided to delve into the esoteric side of trading about twenty years ago I looked at two potential paths I could follow. One was musical and the other was the ancients, geometry, etc. I chose the latter with the intention of circling back to the former sometime in the future but like many things that get put off, never did.
In any case thanks again for the very interesting post and of course my weekend project.
All the best,
Joe
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Hi Joe,
Well, everything vibrates. Last night my wife and I were tapping on our wine glasses along with another glass  we got the up a M6 down a M3 tune that was the old "NBC" motive (dating myself here) to within a few cents in just intonation. Three pitches, two intervals.
What is really fascinating about music /math is that it has formal correlates in geometry. For instance, the ancient vesica piscis pictogram represents seminal harmonic ratios. So does the Brunes star. The Brunes figure is known to traders as the Gann square, but its existence preceded Gann by thousands of years. Who knows where he found it. It was used by ancient geometers and builders. It contains all the harmonic ratios one needs within and by extension and is very effective in modeling the scale invariant fractals in markets. But you have to have scaled charts in order to model both the price and time domain. W59 of course is excellent for this. There are other things you can do.
Years ago I came across an obscure post on a blog by a trader who claimed to have discovered what he called the "Pyth vector." He said that he had only ever met a few people who knew about it and none of them talked about it and none of them could believe that that was actually how markets worked.
Best to you,
Todd
Well, everything vibrates. Last night my wife and I were tapping on our wine glasses along with another glass  we got the up a M6 down a M3 tune that was the old "NBC" motive (dating myself here) to within a few cents in just intonation. Three pitches, two intervals.
What is really fascinating about music /math is that it has formal correlates in geometry. For instance, the ancient vesica piscis pictogram represents seminal harmonic ratios. So does the Brunes star. The Brunes figure is known to traders as the Gann square, but its existence preceded Gann by thousands of years. Who knows where he found it. It was used by ancient geometers and builders. It contains all the harmonic ratios one needs within and by extension and is very effective in modeling the scale invariant fractals in markets. But you have to have scaled charts in order to model both the price and time domain. W59 of course is excellent for this. There are other things you can do.
Years ago I came across an obscure post on a blog by a trader who claimed to have discovered what he called the "Pyth vector." He said that he had only ever met a few people who knew about it and none of them talked about it and none of them could believe that that was actually how markets worked.
Best to you,
Todd
Last edited by abacaba on Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Hi Todd,
You got my attention with that last post.
1. Do you know what a pyth vector is?
2. Can you post a screenshot of it?
3. Can we get it programmed for Wave59?
Thanks
Best wishes,
NDscorpini
You got my attention with that last post.
1. Do you know what a pyth vector is?
2. Can you post a screenshot of it?
3. Can we get it programmed for Wave59?
Thanks
Best wishes,
NDscorpini
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Hi ND,
Everything in my post re the Pyth vector is true.
Todd
Everything in my post re the Pyth vector is true.
Todd
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
Hi Todd,
I started working on some of the things you mentioned in your post the other day and couldn't help but think that I should do this thing the right way and get a stronger foundation of what I am doing for better understanding. Therefore I ended up ordering “A Geometry of Music: Harmony and Counterpoint in the Extended Common Practice (Oxford Studies in Music Theory)” from Amazon and was just wondering if there is any other reading material you could recommend that would aid in my endeavors.
Thanks,
Joe
I started working on some of the things you mentioned in your post the other day and couldn't help but think that I should do this thing the right way and get a stronger foundation of what I am doing for better understanding. Therefore I ended up ordering “A Geometry of Music: Harmony and Counterpoint in the Extended Common Practice (Oxford Studies in Music Theory)” from Amazon and was just wondering if there is any other reading material you could recommend that would aid in my endeavors.
Thanks,
Joe
Re: it ain't over 'til the market sings...
We can, if someone tells me what it is.3. Can we get it programmed for Wave59?
Earik
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