The Vortex ... My Approach

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ForJL
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The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ForJL » Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:14 am

Part I … Construction



Hi Guys,


I decided to begin a new thread on the subject rather then continue on SRJ’s so there would be no confusion on content and to make it easier for others to contribute if they so choose.


Before I begin describing the construction of these charts I first want to address SRJ’s questions first. So are there manual adjustments made during the course of the optimum forecast period? Simply put, none. As a general rule I have never liked the idea of continued adjustments on patterns because I feel it is akin to form fitting the pattern to the data. There are minor exceptions to this but none germane to this discussion. If price moves beyond the spiral lines start the process from the beginning. The shading on the chart simply signifies an area where the pattern may still be valid but is past it’s optimal forecast period. The colors of the vortex are simply yellow, aqua, and lime green for the spokes. Background is dark gray. I actually spend a lot of time working on the colors of my charts and just as Todd does, change them from time to time and have been doing so now for close to 30 years. The reason being because I have found that my eye gets “lazy” after seeing the same colors every day. A change from time to time helps keep my focus sharp. It’s s personal thing and most likely not needed by all. As for a color palette itself, I could have sworn somebody posted something years ago on this. Perhaps another member of the board can help you with this. You might also want to take a look in the W59 library. The last possibility is I’m just plain wrong. ;-)


The Vortex, along with all other geometric patterns that I use start with the proper scaling of the chart. Over the years I have read many methods on the subject and in my opinion they have ranged from being over complicated to lax. Everything I do in my work has purpose so consequently I don’t like to use random numbers that look good as a starting point. On the flip side I don’t want to have to use some complicated algo to figure out scaling either. Mind you I am not criticizing anyone who employs those methods. If it works for them that’s fine. It just doesn’t work for me. What does work for me is Gerbino Sequence numbers. They start with base 20. To work out the sequence divide it by 13. It will give you the multiplier for numbers above 20 (1.53846). For numbers below 20 divide 13 by 20 for the multiplier (.65). [It should be noted here that this number sequence has many potential and varied uses and encourage all to take a look at them.] On intraday charts I always use the minimum tick value as the points per value, bar as the type choice, and a GS number for the square. As I already stated in SRJ’s Using Truncated Data post I like to get price to fill about 60% of the viewable range on the chart as a goal when doing any kind of pattern work. Naturally the GS value you use as the square input will depend on the market under observation and it’s time period. Once you get use to the approach and gain experience using it you will learn good starting points and only minor alterations will be needed to get correct scaling.


Now that your chart has been properly scaled we can move on to the Vortex itself. As another general rule you will use the next GS number up from the one you used in scaling the chart. For instance, if you used 2.32 for scaling on the chart you will use 3.57 on the Vortex. It is possible you may have to go up to 5.49 as a multiplier, the next value in the sequence but not much higher then that. Remember this is a general rule and not written in stone. In fact you can use any GS value you like but you run the risk of making the pattern either to small or to large. Once again with practice and experience under your belt you will learn what’s right under various conditions. As for the anchor location I start by looking for 3 significant Energy Inflection Points (EIP’s) that are all of the same degree of intensity. There is no latitude on this point. They must be of the same degree of intesity. These EIP’s are typically referred to as A-B-C swings. However I look at them differently. In Energy Flow theory they are referred to as the dominant-subordinate-dominant energy signature. While not part of this conversation the term subordinate is a bit of a misnomer for it plays a crucial role in how energy signatures play out. A topic for another discussion In any case you place the Vortex on the last EIP making sure you have the correct multiplier input in place. Next you start turning the Vortex just as you would per the W59 instructions. In fact the only real difference as I recall (it has been close to 17 years since I last read them) is that I am looking to touch the previous two EIP’s with any combination of spokes and spirals instead of one of each as I believe it is described in the help files. There will be times where there is more then one possibly. If so you will have to choose the best option or construct both and choose which is performing better later on. Another thing to keep in mind is that the lines don’t have to be perfectly placed on price though perfection should be sought when possible. After the Vortex is set in place the last thing to do is make a copy of it using the Create A Parallel Drawing Tool. Before you move it in place back over the original you will subtract 20 or 31 from whatever the current tilt input reads. I use 20 in most of my work. Move it to the anchor EIP and you are done.


This completes the construction portion of this discussion. In part II I will go into some variations that can be used, explain how I use it, and touch on some of it’s deficiencies as I see them.


Joe

rlite4
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by rlite4 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:28 am

Hi Joe,

Thanks for detailing all this for us.There is so much info here for newbies like me. This heading is the correct choice since others looking for Vortex info will find it. Looking forward to next part - lot of things to go through in the meantime.

Thanks,
srj

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ForJL
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ForJL » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:02 pm

Hi SRJ,


My pleasure, it sounds cliché but I like the idea of giving back. Part I is pretty straightforward so doubt you will have any difficulties with it. If you do have any questions though by all means just ask. Next up I plan on going into some of the variations I use. Some easy, some a bit more difficult, but one step at a time. ;-)

Joe
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ForJL » Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:30 am

Part II: Variations ... Uses … and Deficiencies



I was hoping to do this part all at once but one glance at my upcoming schedule tells me that is not the best of ideas. So instead I decided to do it in pieces. Hopefully at it’s conclusion you will have a good idea of what I am doing and either use it yourself or delve into your own research.


The first of the variations I use is the most simple … inversion. I’m sure most of you already know this but for those who don’t angles of rotation that rotate counter clockwise from their initial side to their terminal side are positive. Conversely angles that rotate clockwise from their initial side to their terminal side are negative. So once we have our initial Vortex set in place all one needs to do is make a copy of it and then put a negative sign in front of the tilt value. All that is left is to place it back on the EIP. So as an example, if you had a Vortex with a tilt of say 215* all you need do is make a new one of -215* … that simple. Just using this very simple variation will yield some very interesting results. It is definitely not my first choice for this type of analysis but will use it for various reasons. What those reasons are and why it should even work in the first place are way beyond the scope of this discussion. The first chart below is an example of a Vortex Inversion that I have been using this week.



The second chart is a normal Vortex workup but wanted to give you guys a simple idea of how I am using it. The most important part of this setup was early recognition of the EIP. After that everything falls into place. As you can readily see results were strong throughout the day. Notice how it catches the top perfectly at @1445. However while these results where good by themselves I also like to look for confluence with other non-correlated techniques. In another thread I have been writing about a different technique that uses Flux Lines and the Transit to Natal indicator. The final chart is shows how that looked this afternoon. As you can see it also catches the top perfectly and has a CIT signal to boot. Put these two charts together and some cyclic work that I do and it all comes together. I was sitting chilly for an expected move down and finally got a trigger signal at @1448. I was able to capture @12 pts.



The next post will cover more advanced variations using the Vortex. It’s my guess that some of you might not like them because the chart is not as “clean” as the ones I have been showing thus far. However that part of the discussion is for another day.



All the best,
Joe

PS I did this in a hurry so please forgive any mistakes in grammar. :oops:
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ForJL
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ForJL » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:27 am

I’m a bit pressed for time today so going to keep this one on the brief side. There are four charts below. The first is an update of that 64m minute using the inversion technique, the next two are the same with a minor difference that are using a somewhat more advanced approach, and the last being the most difficult of the lot. Today I am going to be concentrating on the second chart. Here we are using a 16 minute chart. This is my preferred time frame for rooting out intraday support and resistance areas. However it comes at a cost as you will find yourself doing new setups often. One of the inherent deficiencies of this method is there is no sure fire way of knowing when the effective predictable period is over. This is true of most geometric patterns. Sometime ago I tried putting something together that would warn the user when the pattern was loosing effectiveness but it’s own effective rate was less then 50% … in other words garbage. So basically you will find that there will be times when you will have to do a fresh workup with the completion of a new EIP and other times when you will not. Generally speaking I don’t trust them past 150% of the distance between the dominant EIP’s and measured off the last EIP.


Okay, so I get up this morning and look at yesterdays 16m Vortex and immediately realize a new workup is needed do to poor overnight performance and the completion of a new dominant energy EIP. So the first part of the workup is something you should know already. This time around though I want to use something better then the base Vortex and instead use one of my more advance versions. Now when I say advanced it is really not that advance and in fact pretty easy for I have done the hard part already. The first thing you do is mark 120 bars into the future from the last EIP. [This is actually a time measurement and not a bar measurement at all. You will find it comes out to 1920 minutes in total and is a slightly complicated yardstick that I use in my astro work.] After you mark it off place a vertical line there. Next use the horizontal line tool and place it on the subordinate energy EIP. [Subordinate energy is an entire conversation in itself and one I might take up somewhere down the line.] All that is left is to copy both vortices and place them where the horizontal and ventricle lines meet. I would also suggest that after you have the vortices in place that you remove both the vertical and horizontal lines to avoid confusion. Finally you will also notice I am using sequencing in that third chart. It’s really not part of this discussion but if you are interested I covered it in my thread “My Own Work.”


I also want to take this time to say something I have been meaning to say since starting this thread. Most of us old timers who have been around here for a while already know this, but for those who don't I just want to point out that Earik wrote an entire book on the Vortex. I personally have not read it but if Earik wrote it you can bet it's good! ;-)


Have to run,

Best
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ForJL
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ForJL » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:48 pm

Starting to get a bit loose up there but still performing well. Changes will soon be needed.
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ES_Surfer
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ES_Surfer » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:12 am

ForJL,

Thanks you so much for posting this. I remember your posts from when I first joined several years ago. Please keep them coming!

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ForJL
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ForJL » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:50 am

Hi ES_ Surfer,


Your comments are very much appreciated. I always try to contribute when I can and dare say I still have a few more posts left in the tank. :)


Thanks again and all the best,
Joe

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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by Thoth » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:15 pm

Hi JL,

Let me second ES_Surfer's appreciation for your posts!

A fair amount of them are over my head and very worth studying and I've been recently revisiting the vortex

so your generous lessons are a welcome gift:-)

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ForJL
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Re: The Vortex ... My Approach

Post by ForJL » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:26 pm

Hi Thoth,


Thanks for the kind words. As with ES_Surfer they are very much appreciated. Take your time with the material and work through it at your own pace. If you have any questions by all means feel free to ask. I can't guarantee I'll be able to answer them for you but can guarantee I'll give it a try. ;-)


All the best,
Joe

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